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RE: RE: Basic mathematical flaw in the methods section

Posted by nmrqip on 01 Feb 2016 at 11:24 GMT

While it is good to see both the author and the handling editor responding here, I am surprised by their apparent insouciance about this error. Martin Robbins raises the question of whether there is any substantial content left after the erroneous material is removed, a concern which I share: the correct treatment of the simple problem was described by Poisson (I think in 1837) and Richard Tol points out that a correct treatment of the more complex problem was published more than 40 years ago.

Beyond that my principal concern is how this paper could ever have passed peer review. A non-monotonic cdf is such a fundamental error (it implies an underlying pdf with negative components, that is negative probabilities) that it should have been immediately obvious to any competent reviewer that the paper could not possibly be correct. The error is not hidden: the author quite openly discusses the non-monotonic behaviour and its supposed significance, and depicts non-monotonic cdf curves in figures 1 and 4.

When a journal publishes a paper containing a trivial, obvious and fundamental error then legitimate questions can and should be raised about how this happened.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: Basic mathematical flaw in the methods section (responses to Tol, Robbins, Jones)

ChrisBauch replied to nmrqip on 04 Feb 2016 at 15:03 GMT

I’m responding to all significant comments by Martin Robbins, Richard Tol, and Jonathan Jones below (other comments were not relevant, or do not accurately represent the paper, my comments or Grimes’ comments):

1) I am not aware of anyone having applied a homogeneous, or non-homogeneous, Poisson process to conspiratorial ideation, nor has it come up in the review process or in the scrutiny since publication. Therefore, the application of this classic piece of mathematics appears to be very novel. (If in fact it has been done, the literature has apparently been so thoroughly forgotten that it deserves to be re-popularized, which is what Grimes’ paper does very effectively.) The mathematics of a paper need not be novel if the application of the mathematics is novel, which appears to be the case here. Poisson cannot have applied his model to Moon Landing or Climate Change conspiracy ideation. Science is full of examples of valid research applying well-known mathematics in new contexts. Insisting that all new science involve new mathematics, as some of the commentators appear to be saying, would mean hardly any science would ever get done. Grimes had the bright idea to realize that conspiracy ideation could be evaluated through failure modelling.
2) The conclusions in the paper rested on the constant population case, which correctly uses the homogeneous Poisson process model and are therefore not affected by the error.
3) Correcting the error has the effect of increasing the probability that a conspiracy is detected, in situations where one might wish to apply a non-homogeneous Poisson process. The reason this flaw did not alter the conclusions is that the flaw necessarily renders the analysis conservative. It’s as simple as that.
4) Expecting a citation to Box or Poisson when you use a Poisson model is like expecting a citation to Leibniz every time you integrate an equation. Perhaps desirable, but not strictly necessary and not a flaw to prevent publication.
5) While only three probabilities p could be generated from the empirical examples: that’s an improvement on the current number of estimates (i.e., none); Grimes conservatively uses the lowest estimated value in his analysis; and the paper includes a clear discussion of the limitations arising from the difficulty in estimating p. Future work could get more values of p.

Competing interests declared: I am the handling editor for this paper.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Basic mathematical flaw in the methods section (responses to Tol, Robbins, Jones)

RichardSJTol replied to ChrisBauch on 05 Feb 2016 at 08:07 GMT

We all seem to agree that, had the methods section in the paper been correct, it would not have been new.

I agree with Chris that it is polite, but not necessary, to acknowledge Simeon Denis Poisson and David Cox when using their models. After all, this is now textbook material.

The paper's contribution thus lies in its empirical contribution.I think the number of observations is too low to support any conclusion, but standards of proof vary. It was a mistake to highlight this minor contribution in the popular media.

No competing interests declared.